Montana

In addition to his five factors, Diamond lists 12 environmental problems facing humans.

  1. Deforestation and habitat destruction
  2. Soil problems (erosion, salinization, and soil fertility losses)
  3. Water management problems
  4. Overhunting
  5. Overfishing
  6. Effects of introduced species on native species
  7. Overpopulation
  8. Increased per-capita impact of people
  9. * Anthropogenic (caused by humans) climate change
  10. * Buildup of toxins in the environment
  11. * Energy shortages
  12. * Full human use of Earth’s photosynthetic capacity (See Human Domination of Earth's Ecosystems

The first 8 have been problems for human societies throughout our past. The last 4(*) are new/recent problems

Discussion Question #1 In your groups, see if you all agree (or not) on which of these are problems that Montana definitely faces, and which are ones that are either minor or less obvious for Montana?

DQ #2 Which of these surprised you the most?

DQ #3 Are any of the these problems related? Does one lead to another?

DQ #4 Are environmentalism and business inevitably in conflict? What do you agree with or push back on in Diamond's view of this:
A sign posted over the toilet by one Montanan friend reads "Do not flush. Be like the mining industry and let someone else clean up your waste!" ... In fact, the moral issue is more complex... In fact American companies exist to make money for their owners... It's a cruel fact that no simple cheap way exists to clean up old mines... When the mine owner can't or won't pay, taxpayers don't want to step in and pay billions of dollars either. [They] balk at spending money if there isn't an immediate crisis. Not enough tax payers complain about toxic wastes or support high taxes... We the public bear the ultimate responsibility. Only when the public pressures its politicians into passing laws demanding different behavior from mining companies will [they] behave differently. Otherwise the companies would be operating as charities and would be violating their responsibility to their shareholders.

DQ #5 Talk a bit about which person's story you found most sympathetic and why. Was there any story you really could not sympathize with at all, or not?

Many roles in a good discussions

There are many positive roles to try out in any group discussion:

stating uncertainties $\ \ \cdot\ \ $ pausing
listening $\ \ \cdot\ \ $ contrasting $\ \ \cdot\ \ $ summarizing
noticing who has *not* spoken $\ \ \cdot\ \ $ encouraging
timekeeping $\ \ \cdot\ \ $ sharing your own reaction

Other comments

  • The difficulty of making money (or even breaking even) at farming!
  • Life in the country vs the city
  • Mining "leaks acid": Acid is usually a byproduct of extracting the valuable ore, not something that was in the rocks hauled up from underground. See also: Gold mining and mercury...
  • Some agricultural practices can deplete the soil of nutrients and organic content without replacing it. Diamond sometimes calls this "mining" the soil.
  • The distance between our consumption and our impacts:
    • Mining companies going bankrupt... But we also need their output.
    • We need timber, and sometimes we "farm it out" (both the profit and the environmental impact) to Canada.
    • For years we dealt with e-waste (old computers...), and plastic "recycling" by selling it to China.